"The most likely scenario for Europe isn’t dhimmitude; it’s a long period of tension, punctuated by spasms of violence, that makes the Continent a more unpleasant place without fundamentally transforming it."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/07/opinion/07douthat.html
A mere "period of tension"? I would remind Mr. Douthat of the details of Theo Van Gogh's murder in Amsterdam in November 2004. Van Gogh, while bicycling to work, was shot eight times by Mohammed Bouyeri. Boyeri then slit Van Gogh's throat, nearly decapitating him. Two knives were thrust into Van Gogh's chest, one attaching a note to his body, threatening Western governments and Jews.
No "fundamental" transformation? This is not what Muammar al-Qaddafi, dictator of Libya, has in mind. In January 2009, The New York Times granted Qaddafi a pulpit on its op-ed page to espouse a seemingly newly discovered moderation in his essay, "The One-State Solution", in which, following Israel's Cast Lead Operation in Gaza, he claimed:
"It is vital not just to break this cycle of destruction and injustice, but also to deny the religious extremists in the region who feed on the conflict an excuse to advance their own causes."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/opinion/22qaddafi.html
The comment that I submitted at that time in response to Qaddafi's op-ed was censored by The Times; however, in my opinion, it retains its relevance:
"The author of Lockerbie is provided an op-ed pulpit by The New York Times to proselytize his newly discovered moderation. A New York Times scoop? Not.
As already reported by Reuters, Muammar Qaddafi spoke yesterday via satellite with Georgetown University students, and in addition to recommending a conciliatory dialogue between President Obama and Osama bin Laden, Qaddafi called for the establishment of a single state to be called 'Isratine' to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. What does not appear in the NYT op-ed, however, is Qaddafi's recommendation to the students of Georgetown that if the Jews did not accept a one-state solution, they should move to Hawaii, Alaska or an island in the Pacific, where 'they could live peacefully in an isolated setting.'
What does Mr. Qaddafi have in mind? Much can be learned from his speech broadcast by Al Jazeera on April 10, 2006:
'Some people believe that Muhammad is the prophet of the Arabs or the Muslims alone. This is a mistake. Muhammad is the Prophet of all people. He superseded all previous religions. If Jesus were alive when Muhammad was sent, he would have followed him. All people must be Muslims. . . . We have 50 million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe - without swords, without guns, without conquests. The 50 million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades. . . Allah mobilizes the Muslim nation of Turkey and adds it to the European Union. That's another 50 million Muslims. There will be 100 million Muslims in Europe. Albania, which is a Muslim country, has already entered the EU. Fifty percent of its citizens are Muslims.'
In his January 14 op-ed, 'Magic and Realism', Roger Cohen wrote: "The world view shaped in the Middle East by Al Jazeera is not amenable to Western logic." My guess is that Mr. Cohen does not speak Arabic, but what is reported above by Al Jazeera is amenable to almost any one's logic, Eastern or Western, and leaves little question as to the future Qaddafi foresees for Europe and 'Isratine'."
"Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe - without swords, without guns, without conquests"? Given my age and the number of decades required to achieve Qadaffi's goal, I'll probably not be around to see it. Meanwhile, however, I will witness how far into his presidency it takes Obama to realize that "making nice" to Ahmadinejad, Qadaffi and their ilk only breeds contempt and whets their appetites.
I find it sad that you would rely on a mentally unstable tyrant-cum-murderer - to bolster your argument in your response to Mr. Douthat's piece in this morning's Times. Just as with mad Muamer Qadhafi's tirade, Douthat's contrived article hasn't got legs to stand on. Albania, though historically 65% Muslim, 35% Christian, is actually the most secular nation in southeastern Europe. That's because our people have a firm grasp of the separation of church and state, a code of honor that predates Christianity, and suffered under Stalinism for almost fifty years. It's also because of an excellent educational system which teaches its people critical reasoning skills. Albania is the only country in Europe to have had more Jews in it at the end of World War II than at the beginning. This is a well-documented fact. My church, the Albanian Orthodox Church of America, was founded by Orthodox Christian Albanians who struggled to free the church in Albania from the grasp of Greek irredentists, and many Muslim Albanians were our greatest champions. That resulted in the greatest victory our people had ever known: the Autocephalous Orthodox Church of Albania - the right to worship God in Albanian. Muslims and Christians intermarry in Albania and there is no interdenominational conflict whatsoever - nor has there ever been. Albania is a shining example of tolerance in the Balkans, at the heart of a Europe you may know little about. There are as many ways of being a Muslim, Christian or Jew as there are Muslims, Christians and Jews. There is absolutely no conflict between being European (or American) and Muslim, Christian or Jewish, either. The only precondition is that one have a firm idea of the separation of Church and State. Albanians most certainly do. Do you, Sir?
ReplyDeleteAlso, Albania is most certainly not yet in the European Union, contrary to Mr. Qadhafi's assertions. Albania is still picking up the pieces from decades of Communism and a catastrophic pyramid scheme where a good portion of the population lost all of their savings in the late nineties. The place is a virtual construction site wherever you go, and tourism is booming. Albania's expat youth are amongst the hardest working people in Europe and America and are essentially keeping the country afloat financially through their remittances home to parents and grandparents. Albania is also on its way to legalizing gay marriage (I don't know how you feel about gay marriage, but I say 'RIGHT ON!').
ReplyDeleteDavid, thank you for your comment.
ReplyDeleteForgive me, but I rarely attend religious services, and the separation of church (or mosque or synogogue) and state is a fundamental tenet of my personal "religion". But please tell me: Is separation of mosque and state the "rule" or the "exception" in the Muslim world?
You "find it sad that [I] would rely on a mentally unstable tyrant-cum-murderer - to bolster [my] argument"? If you do a quick Internet search you will find a picture of President Obama shaking the hand of this "mentally unstable tyrant-cum-murderer".
Your story about religious tolerance and humanity in Albania is charming and heartwarming, but once again I would ask whether this is the "rule" or the "exception" in the Muslim world.
Have you ever witnessed the aftermath of an "honor killing" perpetrated against an innocent woman? This is a phenomenon which is occurring with horrifying frequency throughout Muslim communities in the Middle East, Asia and Europe. I am certain you have not.
Nor have you witnessed "adulterers" being stoned to death or homosexuals being hanged in Iran. You've certainly never seen Baha'is being persecuted and tortured in this country.
Nor have you watched women, who were gang-raped, being sentenced to prison and administered 100 lashes in Saudi Arabia. Nor were you present in this kingdom when a "thief" had his hand removed with the swipe of a sword.
Did you ever see a brutal assault against a human rights activist in Bahrain, or torture of prisoners by means of acid, boiling water, electrical shock or pincers in Yemen?
Did you ever see fingernails ripped from the hands of detainees at torture centers in Pakistan?
I am pleased to hear of your experience in the U.S., but there is also this other shocking brutality which permeates much of the Middle East and beyond.
If only Qadaffi, your "mentally unstable tyrant-cum-murderer", were to be treated as such by his Muslim brethren and . . . Obama.
JG, I believe you will recall that it was George Bush who restored full ties with Libya after 9/11 and the Iraq invasion, and not the Obama administration. Big surprise, and I'm it sure it was the least one oil man could have done for another. I am writing solely about Islam as it is actually practiced by everyday Muslims in Europe and America in 2009, in particular in Albania, which I know well. It is unfair to make the kind of sweeping judgments you do of Muslims, just as it is unfair when Muslims do the same to Christians, Jews and others. I think you'll recall what Matthew Shepherd's fate was right here in the US, and I know you know how hard some in this country are fighting to keep gays and lesbians from marrying one another. I don't have to remind you of the role that Southern Baptists have played in keeping Blacks down up until the present day. No honestly, let's sweep in front of our own door before we go calling out the rest of the world on their rubbish.
ReplyDeletePapa Lazo, thanks for your comment.
ReplyDeleteAll that can be said about Obama vis-a-vis Qadaffi is that he is no worse than Bush? Thus far, Obama's record on human rights is tragic as it pertains to China, Iran and Sudan (Darfur).
Matthew Shepherd's murder was a horror, but at least in the U.S. the gay community is able to campaign actively and openly for its rights. In more than 30 Islamic countries homosexuality is illegal and punishable by whipping or life imprisonment. In Mauretania, Bangladesh, Yemen, Nigeria, Sudan, the UAE, Saudi Arabia and Iran, gays can be sentenced to death.
Thanks for engaging with me and allowing my comments to be posted.
ReplyDeleteObama's been in office less than year and is presiding over the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. He's inherited two catastrophically-managed wars from his predecessor, one of which was based entirely upon lies and crafted to control oil resources which don't belong to us. For that, 5,000 plus American soldiers have died, and around 100,000 Iraqis. Regarding China, Iran and Sudan, I couldn't disagree with you more if I tried.
I think you're more uncomfortable with our President because he doesn't possess a Manichean world view, governs from the center - dispassionately, and prefers substance to spin. During President Bush's first year in office in the months leading up to 9/11, he set the record for the most days spent on vacation of any President in history.
I'm glad you and I see eye to eye regarding Matthew Shepherd's murder, and you are correct that the gay community in the US is free to actively and openly campaign for its rights. I am aware of the plight of homosexuals in all of the countries you mentioned, but again: let's keep our dialogue focused on Europe's Muslims, which is what Mr. Douthat was on a jag about. In no European country with a sizeable Muslim population do you see gays being sentenced to death (Albania, Bosnia or Turkey). The May Albanian edition of the magazine Psychology (Psikologji) even had a special supplement about homosexuality in Albania, urging people towards ever greater understanding and tolerance. At the same time, there was a push to legalize gay marriage in the country.
Focus on Europe? "Honor killings", targeting Muslim women, are occurring throughout Europe.
ReplyDeleteHonor killings occur everywhere there are the vestiges of a tribal order or a complete breakdown of civil society - in Christian countries as well as non-Christian ones. As an Albanian, I'm not unfamiliar with the concept of blood feuds, which have typically been more prevalent in the highlands of the north of Albania, and still go on to this day between certain families.
ReplyDeleteBut honor killings are about violating codes of conduct - pre-Christian, ancient European codes of conduct. I'm not saying they're right. I'm saying they're tribal laws typically adhered to where courts of law are out of reach geographically or socially. JG, we can't talk about Muslim on Muslim violence and turn a blind eye to what's going on in Sicily, Calabria, and Puglia.
To say nothing of New York, New Jersey and Connecticut. Organized crime is rampant in every sector of American society - vending, construction, paving, laundry, gambling. People disappear in the US every day of every week. Americans love honor killings. They eat them up. (One has only to look at the viewer statistics for The Sopranos while that series ran to see how many of our compatriots derive perverse satisfaction from Christian-on-Christian honor killings. Often food and a beverage are consumed while it’s all going down on screen in their living rooms. How sick is that?)
Honor killings. Northern Ireland, East LA, North Philly, the South Side of Chicago, Hong Kong, Rwanda, or Zimbabwe. Pick an egregious violation of human rights, any egregious violation of human rights!
Add drunk driving fatalities into the equation and honestly, with friends like our fellow Americans, who the hell needs enemies, JG?
My point is simple. There's a lot of injustice out there in the world. I understand how tragic it all is. But there is a system of jurisprudence in place and high courts in every European country to deal with murder cases which occur on European soil, just as there are in the US and Canada. Let's just pick and choose our battles more carefully. We have limited time, energy and resources, and ultimately, we should concern ourselves with building a more just, equitable, viable US before we purport to be anything resembling a moral authority in the world.
Hi, Jeffrey. It is like your opponents are telling you that there are two Islams: one is moderate European one and another is everything else. As any religion, Islam is what the top clerics say it is. It is especially true for Islam, because lay people do not have right to interpret Islam. Islamic clerics do not recognize two types of Islam, consider rule of Sharia necessary for the whole world, approve suicide bombing against all Jews, approve the idea that infidels have to be converted or killed and so on so on. Top religious authorities in Islam do not condemn honor killings. They approved riots against the cartoons he all over the world. Everything which is going on in Iran and Saudi Arabia is approved by top Islam authorities.
ReplyDeleteSo, this is what Islam is. And I agree, this is a terrible perspective for Europe.
Papa Lazo, you want to compare the South Side of Chicago with Darfur or Rwanda? I lived in the South Side of Chicago, and there is just no way that you can possibly draw a comparison between poverty and gang violence, on the one hand, and genocide, on the other.
ReplyDeleteThings are not perfect in the U.S.? I agree. But I believe there is ever increasing tolerance and free interchange of ideas in the U.S., something which does not exist in the Muslim world.
Drunk driving in the U.S.? Horrible. True, there is no drunk driving in Saudi Arabia. Take even a sip of alcohol in Saudi Arabia, and the penalty is public lashing.
You say, "we can't talk about Muslim on Muslim violence and turn a blind eye to what's going on in Sicily, Calabria, and Puglia." Why turn a blind eye to either? If you had ever seen the aftermath of an "honor killing" against a Muslim woman, I think you would quickly change your mind.
Build a "more just, equitable, viable US before we purport to be anything resembling a moral authority in the world"? Does that mean the U.S. should ignore genocide in Darfur?
Closer to home, I am troubled when a U.S. congressman, Keith Ellison, the only Muslim in the House of Representatives, labels King Abdullah, who sanctions the execution of homosexuals, a "visionary leader". Just ignore?
The U.S. doesn't need to be the world's "moral authority" or "world's policeman". However, the U.S. need be aware that there are those in this world who would deprive you of your right to "build a more just, equitable, viable US".
The American people are well aware that there are those who would deprive us of our right to build a more just, equitable, viable US. There's nothing in anything that I've written in this thread which states that the US should ignore domestic or international threats to its security or wellbeing. Moreover I haven't stated that because we need to be more focused on building our country up from within that we can afford to turn a blind eye to injustice going on in other parts of the world. We are way off topic at this point, and I don't know if I've gone any further towards convincing you that Europe's indigenous Muslims, Albanians in particular, actually have an excellent record of peaceful coexistence and a solid European identity rooted in antiquity. My point was a simple one. We cannot paint Muslims with a wide brush any more than we can Jews or Christians or anyone else. But that's what Ross Douthat was doing in his piece about the controversy over minarets on mosques in Switzerland. It was just another election year hot-button topic to move public opinion in that country further and further to the right, and that's precisely what happened. If that keeps happening in Europe and the US - and it is, then more Kristallnachts are in store for all of us. Not just for Muslims, but for Jews, homosexuals, and anyone else. I can't pinpoint your politics, but I have gathered that much of what you write is based in a sincere desire to do what's right as you see it. That is noble. I just think you and I see things differently. Best regards, and thank you for interacting with me on your blog. Happy holidays.
ReplyDeletePapa Lazo, thank you for your kind interaction.
ReplyDeleteYou can't pinpoint my politics, because I am neither left nor right. I believe in tolerance and freedom.
I am certain that there is much tolerance to be found in the Albanian Muslim community. Moreover, I have made many friendships with Palestinian and Turkish Muslims. On the other hand, I am not blind to the savagery that occurs in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Bahrain and elsewhere in the Middle East.
Perhaps we don't see things so differently afterall. Happy holidays also to you!
Jeffrey